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Note 1045.0 How to NOT celebrate Halloween 54 replies
CSLALL::SMCGANN 7 lines 15-OCT-1991 10:18
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I'd like to start a note about Halloween. What are your beliefs on
this subject. I feel that I don't want my children to go out
trick-or-treating but how do I explain to them from a Christian
perspective why not (particularly since they have gone out in
the past years)?
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Note 1045.1 How to NOT celebrate Halloween 1 of 54
HYEND::FOREMAN "David Foreman, DTN: 297-6283, Chris" 13 lines 15-OCT-1991 10:49
-< Alternatives >-
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<<< Note 1045.0 by CSLALL::SMCGANN >>>
-< How to NOT celebrate Halloween >-
What I heard from someone else is that you must explain that it is a
religious holiday of Non-christians celebrating darkness. Some
Christian Churches have parties at this time even to the point of
dressing up as Biblical charcters. I would say to this let your
conciense be your guide. Chances are you can proabbly come up with some
activity to substitute for going trick-or-treating that would give
glory to God.
God bles on you on standing up for what is right...
Dave
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SA1794::GUSICJ "Referees whistle while they work.." 30 lines 15-OCT-1991 13:00
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I personally think a lot of Christians are confused about this
day and what to do with it. I don't believe that demonic activity is
any more so on this night than any other. If it is, does that mean
that God is more loving or merciful on Easter or Christmas?
This is not personal nor directed to anyone, but what we
(Christians) could do is to take this opportunity and use it to witness
for the Lord. Take you kids out if you wish along with some treats
(tracks) of your own. When the treater gives your kids a treat, give
them the sweatest name on Earth. This night is a really good night
to witness for the Lord instead of being captive inside a house with
all the doors locked and the lights off so you won't have to answer
the door.
I know it seems weird, but my church is having a haunted house.
No ghosts, devils or witches, but the theme will be that of death.
At the end of the walk through, my Pastor will be there to give a
short message on Jesus and Salvation.
Just because this day is viewed as a worldly day doesn't mean we
Christians can not turn the tables!
Of course, whatever anyone decides to do, they should do in the
Spirit of the Lord and not out of condemnation or fear. But let's
realize that we can use this day to God's glory.
bill..g.
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JURAN::SILVA "Ahn eyu ahn" 14 lines 15-OCT-1991 13:22
-< It's not an evil night, really! >-
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Halloween has become nothing more than a kids night out, for them to
dress up in weird costumes and is generally just a fun time. You will be taking
your kids out, no? If so, why not have them dress as biblical characters? They
don't have to go as anything evil. They could be a martian for that matter. If
Halloween is made out to be an evil event when in the kids minds it's not, then
aren't we just taking things a little too far? We need to remember that this
day has become a kids night out. If there is any haunting to do, it'll be done
in a haunted house or something.
Glen
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RAVEN1::LEABEATER 19 lines 15-OCT-1991 13:24
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See note 166 and its forty some odd replies.
One idea is to focus on All Saints Day (Nov. 1st). The "hallowed" eve
prior to this very Christian holiday has (obviously) been marred. But
you could focus on the history of the lives of the great reformers like
Wesley, Whitfield, Edwards, etc.
What to do with Trick or Treaters? Give out "Halloween" Gospel tracts!
Now, to do this right you've got find some good, seasonal tracts. Check
with American Bible Society or some similar organization. Then, get
some decent treats. If you give out one small jaw-breaker - well, that
is not much of a draw. But word gets around that you've got miniature
Snickers and some "Double-Bubble" to boot, whew - those tracts will go
quick.
Realizing that the end does not justify the means I personally do not
feel that I'm engaged in a bit of Jesuit casuistry.
John
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HYEND::FOREMAN "David Foreman, DTN: 297-6283, Chris" 28 lines 15-OCT-1991 13:34
-< Satan holy day >-
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<<< Note 1045.3 by JURAN::SILVA "Ahn eyu ahn" >>>
-< It's not an evil night, really! >-
> Halloween has become nothing more than a kids night out, for them to
> dress up in weird costumes and is generally just a fun time. You will be
> taking your kids out, no? If so, why not have them dress as biblical
> characters? They don't have to go as anything evil. They could be a
> martian for that matter. If Halloween is made out to be an evil event when
> in the kids minds it's not, then aren't we just taking things a little too
> far? We need to remember that this day has become a kids night out. If
> there is any haunting to do, it'll be done in a haunted house or
> something.
Glen,
This is Sataninist and whiches highest and holiest days of Satanic
worship. At this time Humans (including babies) will be sacrifice to Satan! It
is a day that the true meaning of trick or treat was death and destructiuon in
england The costums that are sold in stores and the act of going and saying
trick or treat even the Jack-o-lantern are all O'cult symbols!
Our bibles say stayaway from even the resemblance of evil. And that our
battles are spiritual not physical.
How can we do that if we who have knowledge of such things participate
in them?
Dave
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COOKIE::JANORDBY "The government got in again" 20 lines 15-OCT-1991 13:56
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Amen Bill. Turn the tables. Begin a celebration of the day that Jesus
drug demons through heaven in defeat (Col 3).
Glen,
Just look at what happens on Halloween in Georgetown (the one in D.C
and the Pearl Street mall in Boulder). Though the appearance may seem
harmless, just look at the things that people dress up as. The worst
part is that we think it is normal.
Jamey
If you don't think that SRA (Satanic Ritual Abuse) is real, read
chapter 3 of Dr. ???? Friesen's 'Unlocking the Mystery of MPD'.
Moreover, get to know an ex-Satanist and ask them what they do on
Halloween. It is amazing what freedom of worship has become.
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BSS::R_LECOMPTE 20 lines 15-OCT-1991 14:36
-< tell them the truth! >-
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AMen. Bad news.
When we decided I told Seth that Mommy had found out that Halloween was
bad and explained to him that people used it for worshipping satan.
Thats all it took and he understood. We don't celebrate at all>
this year, both the boys got saved and baptised (Eddie and Josh)
they both have asked if they HAVE to dress up and do Halloween.
We told them no. So we are going to ask their mom if we can have them
and we are all going to go see a kiddy show.
Last year I put on our door: We do not celebrate Halloween. Do not
knock.
Never had a problem.
hope this helps.
Rothel
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BSS::R_LECOMPTE 7 lines 15-OCT-1991 14:37
-< also >-
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you know also whats too bad is the stuff at school. Thank goodness Seth
attends a Christian school and they ignore the day> I wish we had the
boys and they could too.
They were distraught that they have to dress up at school and don't
want to but are young enough that they don't want to be ridiculed.
Its a hard call.
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ISLNDS::ARNO "Calls us his Friends" 15 lines 15-OCT-1991 15:33
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I don't see any harm in children having fun. The children all seem
to enjoy it. I went to a church and we had a haunted house and
there weren't any scared children, just alot of smiling children.
Besides you can make just as nice costumes from things at home.
Some of us like dressing up and going to parties..
If people were going to the cemetry and having strange services
then that is another story.
Ann
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SA1794::GUSICJ "Referees whistle while they work.." 23 lines 15-OCT-1991 16:10
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re: .5
> Our bibles say stayaway from even the resemblance of evil. And that our
>battles are spiritual not physical.
Correct, so why not leave the spiritual battle to the Lord? If we
are to stay away from even the resemblance of evil as you state, we
would have to hole ourselves up in some cave somewhere.
The battle is indeed spiritual and we should let the Lord fight
our battles. On the other hand, we can also turn a curse into a
blessing. I'm not saying trick-or-treating for the fun of it, but
to reveal Christ in it. I would not let my kids dress up as devils,
witches or ghosts, but instead I would dress them as some Biblical
character.
We are still "in" the world and in that, we are commanded to
reveal Christ which to me is the issue.
bill..g.
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HAVASU::HEISER "singing thru your fingers" 5 lines 15-OCT-1991 19:20
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> day and what to do with it. I don't believe that demonic activity is
> any more so on this night than any other. If it is, does that mean
No, but the activities of those that worship them are definitely
increased!
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HAVASU::HEISER "singing thru your fingers" 5 lines 15-OCT-1991 19:27
-< we have to do our part too >-
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> Correct, so why not leave the spiritual battle to the Lord? If we
I don't believe it is just the Lord's battle. Ephesians 6 talks about
donning the spiritual armor to protect us in this battle when we're
under attack.
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WR2FOR::HOPKINS_DA "SW, the Son-worshipper, a.k.a. " 37 lines 15-OCT-1991 20:30
-< real to real >-
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California's answer...
as some of you might already know, we are gunnin' for 60,000
individuals to fill Candlestick Park for a prayer meeting. We have
already had support from every major religious organization in San
Francisco, and from many others around the world. People will be flying
in from everywhere to take part in the San Francisco Prayer
Breakthrough.
Results of last prayer breakthrough, among many people getting saved,
one of the high priests among the Wicca community. Also, San Francisco
has reported drops in many crimes and gang related incidents.
I agree, let's not hide from the night. Let's take it for the Lord.
Regarding the activity, We can't really use God as an alter example,
although the Bible does say that He used the greatest show of His power
on Rez day. The issue is one of an openness of the people. Occultists
are already preparing for that night, declaring it a "consecrated
night" for them. We all know what happens in our worship, when we are
on one accord, all submitting to God: He shows up. The same thing
happens on the dark side. The join together on a consecrated night, and
there is a greater concentration of spirit activity manifested.
On a related issue, this consecration is used to enhance the sacrifices
(many of which occur not more than 45 miles from here). It is a prime
night of spiritual warfare, where those of teh opposing camp chant,
pray, and try to curse the church of God. Sounds like fantasy, but this
is information obtained by the former Wicca high priest (Eric Pryor).
I personally like Rothel's method. State it clearly, don't hide, do
what you would normally do. Also, if you happen to be radical like me,
there's always more room at the Stick. ;-)
Luvs
Sw
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Note 1045.15 How to NOT celebrate Halloween 15 of 54
CSC32::LECOMPTE "MARANATHA!" 29 lines 15-OCT-1991 21:45
-< Come out from among them. >-
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Just an observation...
There are those that say, "Aw, it's just a harmless kids day.
People don't really look at it as a satanic holiday any more. It has
just turned into a holiday of commercialism and spending." Those
same people will look at a holiday like Christmas and say, "It's not
just a kids day. People really look past all of the commercialism and
spending and see that it is a christian holiday."
Personally I see such things as a paradox. What people are saying
is that the demonic OVERtones of holloween aren't really remembered but
are drowned out by contemporary commercialism. Those same people say
that christmas IS remembered as a religious/christian holiday and IS
NOT drowned out by contemporary commercialism.
The satanists, pagans and other anti-christian folks DO NOT talk
about the Messiah celebrated at christmas so why should we as
christians give any creedance to their 'holiest' (thats a real paradox)
of Satanic days.
btw
re: JGUSIC?
Avoiding the appearance of evil doesn't mean 'running' from it, it
means not participating in it.
_ed-
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Note 1045.16 How to NOT celebrate Halloween 16 of 54
MIACT::ROWELL "Paul Rowell. MDCC UK" 6 lines 16-OCT-1991 04:37
-< A suggestion for those with kids at school >-
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We faced the problem of what to do about school each year, last year we
got hold of an excellent little book from an organisation that supports
Christians in Education. It gives lots of ideas on positive things you
can do or suggest instead. I'll try and find out the details tonight....
-Paul.
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HYEND::FOREMAN "David Foreman, DTN: 297-6283, Chris" 14 lines 16-OCT-1991 08:53
-< This is how I'm convicted >-
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<<< Note 1045.11 by SA1794::GUSICJ "Referees whistle while they work.." >>>
bill..g.
I'm not trying to tell others what to do.... My personel conviction is
not to celebrate it. I feel that dressing up and going out are compormises that
I want to side with Jesus. Remember what ever we lose on earth is lose in
heaven. We are to have the mind of the Lord and not just sit back and be
spectators in the battle.
If you do not have have the same conviction You are free in the Lord to
follow Your own heart and enjoy this time I would not want you in bondage to my
convictions.
Dave
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KARHU::TURNER 14 lines 16-OCT-1991 10:42
-< Use any excuse to direct little minds to Jesus >-
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Perhaps a little insight into the original purpose of costumes, masks
etc would be beneficial. They were used to invoke spirits by suggesting
moods and attitudes that would draw down upon oneself a particular
spirit. In its present form it is all very haphazard. Any invocations
would be accidental or partial. Still not something for a Cristian to
play with.
On the other hand standing the whole concept on its ear by
collecting goods for thanksgiving baskets or handing out tracts gives
children something to feel that they aren't "deprived". Even allowing
the kids "positive" costumes like bible characters, angels or positive
role models is unlikely to be harmful. Definitely extorting candy
should not be allowed :^)
john
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SOLVIT::KRAWIECKI "You get what He paid for!" 12 lines 16-OCT-1991 11:17
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Hi All...
This discussion seems to take place just about this time every year.
If anyone needs to know more info, the other versions have plenty to
chew on. I have an article that's pretty extensive as to the history of
Halloween... just mail me and I'll forward it to you.. free of charge!!
:) :)
Andy
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BSS::R_LECOMPTE 12 lines 16-OCT-1991 11:49
-< Just our kids reaction >-
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You know whats interesting is our kids don't feel deprived at all.
When we told them what it really was about and who's "holiday" it is,
they said YUK and didn't want anything to do with it. In fact they
totally turned against it.
We even told them if they had a problem with the candy, we'd buy em
bags of candy for the show.
They didn't want to celebrate anymore and asked that we call their mom
and explain why!
Rothel
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SWAM1::ANDERSON_CH 28 lines 16-OCT-1991 13:50
-< An eye opening experience for me... >-
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I used to be indifferent about this topic. But am now against any form
of celebration of Halloween due to an experience last year during an
internship at a Psych Hospital.
Occasionally we would get patients who had been raised in a satanic
cult. On Halloween night we took in a patient who had broken away
from the cult her family raised her in and was primarily seeking
protection. The way she explained the events that would occur during
the Halloween celebration sent a chill through my body. It included
sacrafices to Satan, animal and human. She had scars from rituals they
practiced.
For me just the thought of participating in a holiday that was intended
for evil and still practiced by many in a satanic tradition, is wrong.
Though I have many friends that try to turn it into a "good" holiday
including my church's "safe and sane" celebration, I feel for myself
that I cannot participate knowing that somewhere else someone is
celebrating this day with evil intentions, and someone may die and that
others, including children will be forced to participate leaving mental
scars that will haunt them the rest of their lives.
So for me, maybe setting the day aside for prayer, is a better
alternative. And as previous notes have said, explaining to children
the original intent for the holiday may be all the child needs to be
satisfied not to "trick or treat" or participate in the celebration of
a holiday intended for evil.
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DBSRFX::WAHL "Have you hugged your moderator today?" 19 lines 16-OCT-1991 14:14
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We take an approach similar to that adopted by Ed and Rothel. We don't make a
big deal of it; just tell the kids that it's a holiday for people who aren't
Christians. We tell them it's as though we lived in a foreign country where
they have customs which are different from ours, and that we don't do all the
things that everybody else does. On the night in question we go someplace or
play a game together.
Our kids, by our choice, go to public school. Their teachers know what our
family believes and are very good about respecting it. We do allow the kids
to take part in costume parties at school, and they dress in the guise of
people they admire or as things which are fun. Our kids have never asked us
to dress as witches or monsters or that junk (and they probably know we'd say
"no" anyway).
I don't have a problem with costumes. I'm convinced the use of costumes is
inherently neutral; I've been in doing children's theatre too long and seen
too many good results from playacting to find implicit harm in them.
Dave W.
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REJOIC::LOMBARDO "Forever Grateful for the cross!" 12 lines 16-OCT-1991 16:28
-< MA. Kindergarten >-
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I heard on a Christian radio station last night a story about a
Kindergarten class. The teacher told the kids to act like witches and
cast spells on each other. One little Christian 5 year old just sat
at her desk. The teacher came over to her and asked what was wrong.
The little girl said that she didn't want to be a witch. The teacher
asked her what she wanted to be. The little girl said that she wanted
to be a good angel. The teacher said okay. The little girl stood up
on her desk, made a cross out of fingers, and started praying and
rebuking Satan. Needless to say the casting of spells stopped.
Lisa
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COOKIE::JANORDBY "The government got in again" 9 lines 16-OCT-1991 17:51
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I don't have the article with me, but this was featured a while back in
Citizen Magazine by Focus on the Family. This is just part of an entire
cirriculum aproved in several states that include the stuff in .24 as
well as fantasizing about killing others, including family. Best to
review our kids school work, huh?
Jamey
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WARIOR::BURGESS_S 12 lines 16-OCT-1991 15:18
-< Halloween practice by the Evangelical church >-
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I have been reading on the origins and practice of
Halloween. I wanted to find out from other Christians outside the US on
how the Evangelical Church regards and treats Halloween in other
countries. If you know about the practice in other countries could you
either post it or mail me at AIMTEC::BURGESS_S. Please include the
country name. I want to get to the bottom of this trick.
thanks for the help,
Sam Burgess
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VMSMKT::PULKSTENIS "You are loved" 10 lines 16-OCT-1991 18:29
-< please post here for all of us >-
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re -1
Moved to this topic from 1049.0.
I'd be interested in replies in the notesfile about Halloween-like
observances around the world, if there are any similar pagan
celebrations/customs.
Irena
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BSS::R_LECOMPTE 9 lines 16-OCT-1991 18:36
-< Lisa! Great >-
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Amen Lisa.
This gave me chills....
so much wisdom from such a little child!! Praise God!
Love,
Rothel
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YIELD::GRIFFIS 31 lines 17-OCT-1991 09:27
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What is the history of Halloween from a church perspective?
----------------------------------------------------------
I remember reading that the word Halloween is derived from
Hallowe'en, which is the evening before All Hallows Day,
which is also All Saints Day, which is November 1st. This
day in the Christian calendar, was set up in the 7th century
as a special holiday for honoring the dead saints which had
passed on in Jesus Christ. ( People back then felt that people
who had passed on in the service of the King deserved to have a
special day of memoriam for what they did in dedicating their lives
to the church. ) But in order not to overdo it, they set up 1
day. Traditionally, this day was observed in the summertime,
but all hallows day was moved from summer to Nov. 1st as a counter
-attack against fiendish pagan harvest festivals which took
place. This was done by the pope, ( ~1000 years before M.L. ).
As far as the "trick or treating" is concerned,
that was a practice that has survived since that time as well.
What used to happen is poor children would go from door to door
asking for "soul bread". The criteria for doing this apparently
was that the people who gave to the poor would have prayers lifted
up on behalf of the household. Its a tradition that has not gone
away, yet, but some day, will.
I like the idea of handing out tracks on Halloween.
I've done that before; except, with the goal of systematically bring
-ing one to every door in one neighborhood of one town. I think
that would be a tremendous church project too, blitz a whole town
with tracks, every door, every passerby, etc.
Greg
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CSCOA1::ARNETT_G "Seeking a country to rule" 6 lines 17-OCT-1991 10:40
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Not to be offensive or whatever, but when people in here say they want
to hand out "tracks", do they mean "tracts"? Or is tracks some
specific variation on tracts?
George
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TOKNOW::METCALFE "Eschew Obfuscatory Monikers" 2 lines 17-OCT-1991 10:55
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They meant tracts. American english becomes blurred, especially where spoken
word dominates the society (radio, TV, telephone). but this is a rathole.
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MIACT::ROWELL "Paul Rowell. MDCC UK" 16 lines 21-OCT-1991 05:19
-< Probably too late but... >-
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The booklet I mentioned in .16 is:
Halloween in the Classroom by Margaret Cooling.
Published by the Association of Christian Teachers,
2 Romeland Hill
St Albans,
Herts.
AL3 4ET
UK
I have nine spare copies, if you would like one please send me a mail
on MIACT::ROWELL or Rowell @BBP.
yiHs
-Paul
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LJOHUB::BOYLAN 18 lines 21-OCT-1991 13:59
-< Let's not confuse which came first! >-
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Re: .4
John - please don't let the desire to make your point lead you into
messing with history. All Saint's Day was a response of the Catholic
church to the Northern European pagan holy day which we know as
Halloween.
The night at the end of October was one of the two primary festivals
of the Northern European pagan year. The Church, of course, couldn't
allow the pagan practice to continue when Christianity became predominant
in those areas. After centuries of trying, however, the Church was still
not able to stamp out the celebrations, and chose to co-opt the holiday
in a limited form.
Anybody out there have any further history on the growth and evolution
of the Christian holiday?
- - Steve
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BSS::R_LECOMPTE 6 lines 21-OCT-1991 14:28
-< where is John and Elaine? >-
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Elaine and John Indermuehle are very knowledgable on the subject but
when they moved "back east" they seemed to disappear. What did ya'll
do with them? Maybe they are alive and well at Parkers?
ha.
Rothel
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FORTSC::MOK 38 lines 27-OCT-1991 19:00
-< UPI: Witches protest Halloween Festival ban in Ocean City NJ >-
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Subject: Witches protest Halloween Festival ban
Date: 27 Oct 91 19:10:45 GMT
OCEAN CITY, N.J. (UPI) -- The seaside resort of Ocean City, founded as
a Methodist meeting camp, canceled an appearance by one witch and got
five instead.
The witches made an unofficial visit Saturday to the Halloween
Festival to protest what they called religious discrimination and inform
townspeople and visitors about their practices. As they explained it,
they are not devil-worshipers or satanists, and do not sacrifice animals
or use their spells to harm others.
Norm Vogel, a New Jersey witch, had been invited to the festival. But
Mayor Nickolas Trofa decided to withdraw the invitation under pressure
from two Protestant ministers.
For good measure, the mayor canceled appearances by psychics and
fortune tellers.
Vogel and four colleagues gathered outside the Music Pier in long,
deep-colored robes. But their protest consisted of talking quietly to
anyone who stopped to listen, explaining that the Halloween celebration
is intimately connected to witchcraft.
``It symbolizes the New Year, the end of the harvest,'' Vogel said.
Except for Vogel, the witches identified themselves only by the names
they use in their rituals, saying they fear harassment.
The witches described themselves as pagans and said their rites and
holidays are linked to the agricultural calendar. Vogel said that the
pentagram, or star within a circle, is a symbol of the spirit, air,
fire, water and earth.
Ocean City was founded by Methodists who wanted to enjoy the beach
and sea breezes of the Jersey Shore without the worldly temptations of
other resorts. While court decisions have done away with strict rules on
Sunday activities, the resort remains a quiet, family-oriented
community.
The ministers who opposed Vogel's appearance remain adamant. The Rev.
Darrell Duer of St. Peter's United Methodist Church said witches have a
right to inform others about their religion, but a municipally sponsored
festival was not the place.
The Rev. Ronald Mansdoerfer of Ocean City Baptist Church was tougher.
``A good witch is an oxymoron,'' he told The Philadelphia Inquirer.
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FORTSC::MOK 8 lines 29-OCT-1991 13:24
-< Heard on the radio... >-
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Heard on KCBS (San Francisco) radio this morning: A student body leader in
Monterey Community College called off plans for a Halloween dance because he
thinks Halloween should not be celebrated. He said traditionally Halloween was
celebrated with human sacrifice in order for the return of a shorter winter.
He said that celebration of such a festival would violate the separation of
church and state. He did not encounter any opposition to his plans, because
nobody wants to spend the money on the dance anyway.
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WPOCS1::KAPTEYN "Yahwehnissi" 15 lines 31-OCT-1991 00:58
-< Asking for sacrifices
>-
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Unfortunately the bad habit of celebrating Halloween has filtered down
from the USA to good old Oz.
I did some checking. On Halloween night the druid priests used to go
around the neighbourhood to collect young girls (treat) to sacrifice to
the God of death (His name escaped me) to satisfy the desires of witches
goblins and what ever else of evil spirrited things they thougt of in those
day's. If they where given this treat the druid priest would place a sign
symbolished by the pumpkin with eyes mout and light to indicate that the price
was paid and the evil ones would leave them alone. . If they where not given
this treat then they placed the trick , I believe sixpointed cross ,
on the door indicating that this was a free for all to the evil ones.
All I can see is that the current practise teaches childeren how to blackmail.
I dont know about the states but here they do some weird things to peoples
property if not given a treat
Jan
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Note 1045.38 How to NOT celebrate Halloween 38 of 54
NAC::WIEBE "Garth Wiebe" 7 lines 31-OCT-1991 08:43
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Re: .37 (Jan)
> I did some checking. On Halloween night the druid priests used to go
Can you please supply references to the primary sources for this information?
Thanks.
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Note 1045.39 How to NOT celebrate Halloween 39 of 54
BSS::R_LECOMPTE "Jesus Christ is Lord of ALL!" 5 lines 31-OCT-1991 12:44
-< I miss Elaine >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wish Elaine was around she had some excellent sources along these lines
about the Druids and what they did and the origins of the "holiday".
Rothel
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Note 1045.40 How to NOT celebrate Halloween 40 of 54
TOKNOW::METCALFE "Eschew Obfuscatory Monikers" 52 lines 31-OCT-1991 12:48
-< Some thoughts >-
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Today, my wife took Emmy to School and there were angels and princesses
among the costumed. If we all removed the angels and princesses, we'd be
left with the Freddy Krugers and the goblins.
We should educate our children into Halloween, as we educate them
into Christmas. It is a holiday that for most people,
it means free candy, dressing up for parties, and dunking for apples.
And for most people, it is nothing more than that.
I am confused about the roots of the holiday. Some say its roots are
Christian and the ghosts, etcs came from hallowing (honoring) the dead in
Christ (the saints on All Saints Day). Originally in the summer, it was
moved to this date to overlay, and supplant a pagan day (much as Christmas
was!).
Enter the religious on both sides, where Satanism seeks to claim it as
a High Holy Day for Satan, and Christians react - somehow. How?
When we were kids, we only cared about the candy, the parties, and a good
frankenstein movie. Now we have realistic lunatics. I would say that
dressing up as Freddy Kruger is wrong. I would not say that dressing up
in a costume is wrong. Kids play act all the time.
The key point is: as our children grow older, we must educate them as to the
proper meaning of all things, including Halloween - where it came from,
how we celebrate it (just for fun and not for any of the reasons these
other groups put forward - don't let them lay claim to this night as
theirs because it justifies them!).
Wearing costumes does not glorify Satan, unless you wear something that
glorifies Satan, or do something to glorify him. We *CAN* celebrate
halloween in a Christian manner, I think.
Some Christians think that the answer is to dress up as Bible characters.
This is a knee jerk reaction like aerobicizing only to Christian music.
I *could* dress up as Rahab the Harlot, or Ahab, or Jezebel, of Judas,
right?
The answer is not whether or not to celebrate (although this is the right
of every family to choose) but rather how to celebrate in the face of the
way you feel others are celebrating it. I dislike halloween for many
reasons, but the more I ponder the question, should I relinquish the
holiday to the evil ones in hopes that enough of us will do so to
eliminate the celebration of halloween altogether? I think it is more
appropriate to educate people against the evil associated with the holiday,
and in time the celebration may become much more passive (in our children's
lifetime). To ignore it seems to me to give it up to the devil in our
children's lifetime. I'd rather not yield any more ground than already
has been yielded. Let's be proactive instead of reactive.
What do you think?
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Note 1045.41 How to NOT celebrate Halloween 41 of 54
CSC32::LECOMPTE "MARANATHA!" 506 lines 31-OCT-1991 15:07
-< Since no one else put it in...Here goes. >-
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Ok, Here is what I have... anybody interested?
<<< IOSG::LIB0:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CHRISTIAN.NOTE;1 >>>
-< Be ready for The Day >-
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Note 345.21 Halloween 21 of 38
WOODRO::KRAWIECKI "God > than any problem I have" 497 lines 15-SEP-1989 13:12
-< History of Halloween >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reprinted with permission. I know it's long but people don't seem
to want to go back and find it or don't know how. I believe Bradster
is responsible for entering this way back.....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vol. 25 October 1984 No. 11
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T R I C K O R T R E A T : T H E H I S T O R Y O F H A L L O W E E N
It has been said that some of our modern holidays, particularly Christmas, are
pagan in origin. This line of thought is quite weak historically. For
example, the allegation regarding Christmas is supported by one primary pagan
connection, the December 25th date. This is not true of All Hallows' Eve,
more commonly known as Halloween. Very little difference exists between
Halloween festivities now and Halloween festivities 2000 years ago. The
reason ancient Halloween rites have not changed (unlike the ancient rites of
December 25th) lies in the unique position of this ritual, in terms of the
occult.
The Roman Catholic Church has traditionally sought to dispose of pagan
holidays by using the tried and true formula of accepting the local date and
then merely changing the meaning and sometimes ceremonies of the date. On
Christmas these days, Santa Claus, gifts, and Christmas trees bear no
resemblance whatsoever to the ancient December 25th practice of eviscerating a
goose and using the internal organs to foretell the future, such as was the
practice of the pagan, ancient Romans. Altering holidays has met with much
less success regarding Halloween, however, because this ancient Celtic ritual
is more widely practiced now than ever before.
Halloween is a practice originated, as far as can be told, from the ancient
Celtic peoples. The expanse of the Celtic race is related in Barry Cunliffe's
book, _The Celtic World_:
"Traces of the Celts can be found almost anywhere in
temperate Europe. Their fortifications - hillforts and
oppida - are to be seen spreading in a broad arc from
Yugoslavia to the north of Scotland; the museums of Europe
store thousands of objects recovered from the excavations
of graves and of settlement sites or dredged from rivers and
bogs; while many of our great cities, including Budapest,
Paris, Belgrade, stand on Celtic foundations."
Other famous cities are built on Celtic foundations; London, England is a
prime example. As to the identification of modern Celts, Ireland, Wales, and
Scotland are populated largely by those of Celtic blood and retain the
indigenous Celtic languages, as do the cities of Cornwall, England and
Brittany, France.
According to _Funk and Wagnall's Standard Reference Encyclopedia_,
"Halloween or "All Hallows' Eve" is a "name applied to the
evening of October 31, preceding the Christian feast of
Hallowmass, Allhallows, or All Saint's Day. The observances
connected with Halloween are believed to have originated
among the ancient Druids, who believed that on that evening
Saman, the lord of the dead, called forth hosts of evil
spirits. The Druids customarily lit great fires on
Halloween, apparently for the purpose of warding off these
spirits. Among the ancient Celts, Halloween was the last
evening of the year, and it was regarded as a propitious
time for examining the portents of the future. The Celts
also believed that the spirits of the dead revisited their
earthly homes on that evening."
Indications in our popular culture are that the public is becoming increasingly
aware of the original rites of Halloween. Probably largely responsible for
this reawakening are three movies which have grossed millions of dollars:
"Halloween", "Halloween II", and "Halloween III - The Season of the Witch".
In all three movies, this cult of death which is celebrated October 31st is
very well illustrated. Now, for the first time in possibly one thousand
years, many know the origins and true significance of Halloween.
Unfortunately, a marked rise in the ancient practices has accompanied this new
knowledge. In England, Ireland, Scotland, and France, as well as in America,
many thousands of persons are reverting to the religion of their ancestors and
to the "festival of the dead". Before examining modern witchcraft's rise, in
relation to Halloween and its affiliated rituals, we should consult the Bible.
Exodus 22:18 says, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live". The Bible
contains repeated denunciations of witchcraft and other practices of this ilk.
Therefore, claims by modern witches that they are "unopposed" to Christianity
must be put to rest. Exodus 22:20 further warns, "He that sacrificeth unto
any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed". Thus,
although the numbers of those who practice the black arts are growing, we must
remember that the ancient practices of sacrifice and witchcraft are expressly
forbidden.
_Man, Myth, and Magic_, a 24-volume encyclopedia of the supernatural, says
"All Hallows' Eve, or Hallowe'en, was originally a festival
of fire and the dead and the powers of darkness. It is the
evening of 31 October, the night before the Christian
festival of all Hallows' or All Saints' Day. All Hallows'
Day commemorates the saints and martyrs, and was first
introduced in the 7th century. Its date was changed from 13
May to 1 November in the following century, probably to
make it coincide with and Christianize a pagan festival of
the dead. All Souls's Day in the Roman Catholic calendar is
2 November. It is marked by prayers for the souls of the
dead."
The intentional effort by the Catholic church to stamp out the pagan
ceremonies of Halloween failed, however. Whereas the original meanings were
clouded or lost, the actual methodology of witchcraft and worships survives
until the present day.
Let us specifically examine the original meanings of Halloween. _The Golden
Bough_, by Sir James Frazier, is a considered and respected, albeit secular,
work on the occult from the 19th century. Sir Frazier's comments seem most
enlightening to our study:
"Throughout Europe, Halloween, the night which marks the
transition from autumn to winter, seems to have been of old
the time of year when the souls of the departed were
supposed to revisit their old homes in order to warm
themselves by the fire and to comfort themselves with the
good cheer provided for them in the kitchen or the parlor
by their affectionate kinsfolk. It was, perhaps, a natural
thought that the approach of winter should drive the poor
shivering hungry ghosts from the bare fields and the
leafless woodlands to the shelter of the cottage with its
familiar fireside."
So, one of the reasons for bonfires, so common on Halloween, are to attract
the dead and to keep them away from the home, until their journey into the
afterworld. This was a serious matter to those who practiced the Celtic
religion. Samhain, or Sa-ween as it was pronounced, hence Hallo-ween, was the
single most important festival concerning the dead to the ancient Celtic
world. Bonfires were also used for one of the most hideous acts imaginable.
The _Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology_ tells us:
"... on the eve of Samhain the people of the side
(otherworld) left their domain and wandered in the world of
man ... hideous and terrifying ritual at Samhain ... attacks
by hostile supernatural powers and of sacrifices are
indicative of this insecurity and the need for
propitiation."
Simply put, the Celts wished to know the future and believed that on this
terrible night they could learn the future by use of a ritual. This ritual
consisted of constructing a basket, containing a human being or an animal.
This basket was then burned, with the unfortunate inmate within burned to
death. It was the belief of the Celts that by watching the victim die by
fire, they would be able to see signs of the future as the sacrificial victim
passed from this world into the next.
The Celts believed that on this night other creatures roamed with the spirits
of the dead. Fairies, as reported by _Man, Myth, and Magic_,
"... could also be seen on All Hallows' Eve, moving from
one fairy hill to another with the music of bells and
elfhorns. They were sometimes identified with the dead."
The Celts held that fairies could be good or bad; however, the introduction of
Christianity changed this distinction. Jack Santino's work, _Night of the
Wandering Souls_, reveals:
"Samhain, with its emphasis on the supernatural, was very
pagan. While missionaries identified Christian holy days
with native holy days, they branded the earlier supernatural
deities as evil and associated them with the Devil. As
representatives of the rival religion, Druids were
considered evil; their gods and spirits, devilish and
demoniac. The Celtic underworld inevitably became
associated with the Christian Hell. The effects of this
policy were to diminish but not totally dispel beliefs in
the traditional gods. According to priests, fairies were
fallen angels, thus identifying them with devils in
Christian theology."
Thus, as the Celts converted to the new religion, they did not forget their
stories of the dead traveling to the afterworld on Halloween, nor did
sightings and activities of fairies cease being reported. Instead,
manifestations of this night became overwhelmingly evil, and the festival
adopted even more malicious overtones. Everything supernatural was attributed
to demons who masqueraded as fairies, hobgoblins, vampires, werewolves, and
virtually any other myth. Interestingly, until the advent of the 20th
century, these supernatural beings were regarded as very real and very
dangerous.
As more Celts became Christian, the native Druids or Celtic priests were
correctly labeled "witches". Witchhunting became a very common phenomenon
until the 17th century, with the usual punishment prescribed being burning at
the stake. Whereas witchhunting crazes broke out indiscriminately, hunting
witches during Halloween became virtually a national pastime. _Man, Myth, and
Magic_ says:
"Darker and colder creatures still roamed through the night
on Hallowe'en - demons and hobgoblins, witches who straddled
broomsticks or shankbones, flew in sieves or egg-shells, or
rode on coal-black horses. The fires helped to keep them
off and at Balmoral in Queen Victoria's time the effigy of a
hideous old witch was ceremoniously burned on a bonfire at
Hallowe'en."
It should be noted that Queen Victoria ruled the British Empire at its height,
during the 19th century. Witches were very much on the public's mind during
the last two millennia. Midnight of October 31st was considered an extremely
hazardous time, as witches were believed to be actively hexing people and
communing with the devil. Many Catholics took to making charms and casting
"white magic" spells to protect themselves from the evil they knew to be very
potent on this night. What many apparently did not realize was that charms
themselves were as evil as the witches they were supposed to thwart.
Foretelling the future was an idea intriguing to the Celts, as much as anyone,
and many still believed the Druids were witches - or in the case of males,
warlocks - they did not doubt this. Therefore, burning sacrificial animals
and, occasionally, people was still not uncommon. Even in our time, animals
are sacrificed on Halloween in Europe and in the Philippines, as well as in
the Americas.
Using witchcraft to foretell the future was a crime that cost King Saul of
Israel his life. I Samuel 28:7-8 reads,
"Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath
a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her.
And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that
hath a familiar spirit at Endor. And Saul disguised
himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men
with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said,
I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and
bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee."
The story of the witch of Endor already possessed several significant
similarities to the witches of the Celts. Familiar spirits are nothing more
than demons, and the fairies and leprechauns of Celtic myths are the same as
familiar spirits.
The Lord's punishment upon Saul was pronounced to him the very same night. I
Samuel 28:17-18 relates,
"And the Lord hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the
Lord hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it
to thy neighbour, even to David: Because thou obeyedst not
the voice of the Lord, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon
Amelek, therefore, the Lord hath done this thing unto thee
this day."
The Lord's pronouncements concerning witchcraft are quite clear. There is no
such thing as "white" magic; it is all evil and empowered by evil beings. It
should also be emphasized that these actions transpired at nighttime, as do
traditional Halloween activities.
The other, and much more popular, so-called white magic act is the creation
and wearing of charms. Few people realize that the wearing and use of charms
is simply another manifestation of witchcraft. Be it rabbits' feet or
religious medallions, trinkets, or other such relics, these objects are
subject to demonic power. The word "charm" means "to cast a spell on". The
Bible contains several passages about charms and the use thereof. Psalm
58:3-5 says,
"The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as
soon as they be born, speaking lies. Their poison is like
the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that
stoppeth her ear; Which will not hearken to the voice of
charmers, charming never so wisely."
This is hardly a ringing endorsement of the use of charms. Furthermore,
Isaiah 19:3 states:
"And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof;
and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek
to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have
familiar spirits, and to the wizards."
The Lord purposefully groups together idol worshipers, witches with familiar
spirits, wizards, and charmers. This is not the only scripture dealing
thusly. The activities of Halloween, the making of charms, divining the
future, the practice of magic, and dealing with unclean spirits and demons are
explicitly forbidden to mankind. Deuteronomy 18:10-12 says,
"There shall not be found among you anyone that maketh his
son or daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth
divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a
witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits,
or a wizard, or a necromancer (that is, 'one who seeks to
interrogate the dead', according to Schofield). For all
that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and
because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive
them out from before thee."
This is a very explicit commandment from the Lord. Thus, the ancient Celtic
ritual of Halloween practiced today in America is pagan in origin and innately
linked with the occult, about which the Bible has much to say and warns
against.
Among the Celts - as well as among the Chinese, the Egyptians, and even the
Aztecs - it was thought that the spirits of the dead required food and drink.
During the festival of Samhain, the people would leave various articles of
food outside to placate the spirits. This was very important, for only the
finest mutton legs, vegetables, eggs and poultry - as well as honey and wine -
were left outside for the spirits to consume on their way to the netherworld.
To supply nothing meant that the hungry and possibly irritated spirit might
intrude upon one's house and help itself to one's belongings. Leaving out
food that had spoiled was also considered an open invitation to disaster.
Therefore, families who faced uncertain diets, often of very low quality, gave
what was most precious to them: food. This takes on added implications when
we recall that, at that time, food was very difficult to preserve. Moreover,
Halloween marked winter's beginning, when food was at its scarcest, and
starvation not uncommon.
From this practice evolved on of the most remarkable aspects of Halloween; to
quote Santino:
"Virtually all of our Halloween customs today can be traced
to the ancient Celtic day of the dead. Each of Halloween's
many mysterious customs has a history, or at least a story,
behind it. The wearing of costumes, for instance, and the
roaming from door-to-door demanding treats can be traced to
the Celtic period and the first few centuries of
Christianity when it was thought that the souls of the dead
were out and around, along with fairies, witches, and
demons. Food and drink were left to placate them. As the
centuries wore on, people began dressing as these dreadful
creatures and performing antics in exchange for offerings of
food and drink. This practice, called mumming, evolved into
our present trick or treating. To this day, witches,
ghosts, and skeleton figures of the dead are among the
favorite disguises."
The practice of wearing masks and outfits to represent these evil creatures is
universal in the human experience. From the Indians of America to China - in
all the inhabited areas of the earth - traditions exist in which individuals
who dress to represent a god or demon are imbued with supernatural powers and
often given presents or beneficial treatment. There is a reason for this.
Idols and masks of idols are representative of something! I Corinthians
10:19-21 says,
"What say I then? that the idol is anything, or that which
is offered in sacrifice to idols is anything? But I say,
that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice
to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should
have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the
Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the
Lord's table, and the table of devils."
So the Bible tells us that idols represent demons, "demon" being the actual
word used in the original Greek text. Offerings of food are offerings of food
to demons; the trick or treating of today is reminiscent of that practice. In
fact, trick or treating children often masquerade as demons. Food is given
these children under the guise of a "trick or a treat". It has become a
recent phenomenon that adults participate in these activities, a strange
shadow of what transpired 2,000 years earlier.
Lest we should become confused as to how the concept of romping spirits became
intertwined with children, we must again quote _Man, Myth, and Magic_:
"The guisers went from house to house, singing and dancing.
Their blood-curdling masks and grotesque costumes may have
been meant to keep evil at bay or, more likely, were a
visible representation of the ghosts and goblins that lurked
in the night. The masks have now been transferred to the
children who, in the United States, visit the neighbours for
the food offerings which belonged to the dead - or play
tricks akin to the legendary destructiveness of witches and
imps abroad on this night."
This then is the story and significance behind trick or treating. But there
is more to the story of Halloween ...
Virtually everyone in this country has either made or seen a jack-o-lantern.
These macabre, grinning pumpkins with candles inside often light the way of
the errant ghost seeking his or her candy. Have you ever wondered where the
idea for the jack-o'-lantern originated? This, too, was a Celtic invention
used during the ritual of Samhain or Halloween. In the United States, the
jack-o'-lantern is a carved pumpkin. The orange, grinning, candle-filled lamp
of Halloween is extremely popular and may be observed virtually anywhere in
the United States at Halloween. The use of a pumpkin for the jack-o'-lantern
is an invention of the American Indian. In Europe, where the concept for the
jack-o'-lantern was conceived, it is not a pumpkin but rather a carved-out
turnip. The switch was made in America because, besides being much larger
than a turnip, the pumpkin is easier to carve. The turnip was the original
jack-o'-lantern, and here is the earliest known tale of how it originated.
The tale of the jack-o'-lantern is, in several ways, reminiscent of the
classic tale of Dr. Faustus in world literature. A blacksmith by the name of
Jack made a contract with Satan. The deal contained a trade-off. Jack the
blacksmith would be given powers by Satan that would make him the best
blacksmith in the world for a period of seven years. In return, Satan would
demand Jack's soul at the end of this seven-year period. Jack thus received
the powers and hung a sign outside his shop proclaiming himself the master of
all masters.
As the story goes, one day the Son of God came to the shop, accompanied by the
apostle Peter. The sign had indicated that the owner was in need of religious
indoctrination. Thus, the two worked several miracles - to no avail - in
Jack's presence. Peter then offered Jack three wishes, which Jack immediately
seized upon. Santino writes:
"first, he wished that whenever he told someone to climb a
nearby pear tree that person would have to stay in the tree
until Jack allowed him to come down. He made the same
wishes regarding his armchair and his purse: one must stay
in them until Jack allowed him to go.
"'You have wished very foolishly', said Saint Peter. "You
should have wished for everlasting peace in Heaven.'
"Nevertheless, Jack used these three wishes to trick the
Devil when he came to take his soul. Each time the Devil
came, Jack tricked him into climbing the tree, sitting in
his chair, and finally, shrinking himself and entering his
purse. Each time, the Devil gave Jack seven years in return
for his freedom, and finally he simply fled in terror."
Jack could not live forever, however, and one day he died. When presented a
heaven's Pearly Gates, Peter would not allow Jack inside. Denied entrance
into heaven, Jack went to hell. At the gates of hell, Satan refused Jack
entrance, saying that Jack was full of too many tricks and would cause
mischief. Satan then ordered the gates of hell closed. But before Jack was
thrown out, he managed to scoop out a burning coal from the fires of hell with
a turnip he had been eating. As this coal came from hell, it was eternal and
would never be extinguished. Thus, Jack, who was denied entrance into heaven
and hell, was doomed to roam the earth with his peculiar lantern, his
Jack-o'-lantern, if you will.
The Halloween festival became fully established in America after the huge
influx of Irishmen as a result of the great Irish potato famine of 1846.
America, in that era, was quite religious, and so the stories of fairies and
leprechauns, as well as demons and ghosts, were accepted as fact. Religious
beliefs aside, those less well-educated tend to be more superstitious - at
least that was the prevalent thinking of the early to mid-twentieth century.
In America, those who were the most superstitious were also the least
educated; the American Indian, the Negro, and poor white settlers in the
Appalachian and Ozark regions tended to take superstitions very seriously
indeed. Other than these groups, belief in the Bible as the Word of God
confirmed, as a matter of course, the existence of ghosts and demons.
Education - as taught in the mid-twentieth century until the present - has
become increasingly secular and anti-supernatural in thinking.
Studies in the occult, from both religious and purely academic points of view,
have shown a marked increase in the numbers and efforts of satanists in the
latter part of this century. By satanist, we include such practices as
witchcraft, following pagan religions, charmers, necromancers, and other
practices of the black arts.
According to Paul Lee Tann's _Encyclopedia of 7700 Illustrations_,
"Satan worship and all forms of the occult is evident
everywhere. It is estimated that there are at least 100
million Americans who dabble in some form of Black Magic."
"In New Jersey, a young man was drowned by a group of his
friends at his request, because that a violent end would put
him in command of forty legions of demons."
Witchcraft is not dead. In England, at the ancient ruins of Stonehenge, Druid
priests perform ancient rites, as their ancestors did. Witch hunts, which
resulted in the murdering of more than half a million persons in Europe during
the last millennia, are not a phenomenon of the past. According to _Collier's
Encyclopedia_,
"In 1957 during a virus epidemic in Alaska, the civil
authorities were hard put to it to prevent an Eskimo
community from destroying the 'witches' held responsible."
No, the occult is not dead. In fact, the occult is currently probably
stronger than at any time since the Dark Ages. Zombies are no laughing matter
in Haiti, any more than demons are to Christians; and who is to say in what
form demonic power can manifest itself? Astrology, chiefest of the black arts
among Americans, has skyrocketed in popularity since the 1960s.
According to the _Encyclopedia of 7700 Illustrations_,
"Americans spend over $200 million a year on astrology
alone. A 1976 Gallup Poll indicated that those who take
astrology seriously may number as many as 32 million ... It
is estimated that 1200 of the 1700 U.S. daily newspapers
regularly print horoscope columns."
The evil world of the occult wages an ongoing assault against Christianity.
We believe revival of witchcraft and the black arts is indicative of the end
times. Satan knows the time of Christ's return is near, and he is mustering
all of his forces to engage in a battle he has lost already. Let no one doubt
that witchcraft and sorcery are very real. The number of occult-related
murders has been on the increase in this country for more than a generation.
Moreover, one of the most significant occult dates of all - the one favored
for Black Mass - is Halloween, celebrated the last day of October in our
nation. On college campuses and universities today, Anton LaVey's _Satanic
Bible_ is often a best-seller - in some cases, outselling the Bible itself.
It is of great importance to realize that the powers some claim are not powers
of themselves; real sorcery relies on demonic or Satanic power. Ephesians
6:12 states:
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against
principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the
darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high
places."
There is, in conclusion, only one way to win against Satan; that is victory
through Christ Jesus.
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Note 1045.42 How to NOT celebrate Halloween 42 of 54
NAC::WIEBE "Garth Wiebe" 32 lines 31-OCT-1991 16:02
-< Conflicting stories >-
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So let's see... which story do we believe?
The one in 1045.37...
>I did some checking. On Halloween night the druid priests used to go
>around the neighbourhood to collect young girls (treat) to sacrifice to
>the God of death (His name escaped me) to satisfy the desires of witches
>goblins and what ever else of evil spirrited things they thougt of in those
>day's. If they where given this treat the druid priest would place a sign
>symbolished by the pumpkin with eyes mout and light to indicate that the price
>was paid and the evil ones would leave them alone. . If they where not given
>this treat then they placed the trick , I believe sixpointed cross ,
>on the door indicating that this was a free for all to the evil ones.
Or the one in 1045.41...
>The use of a pumpkin for the jack-o'-lantern
>is an invention of the American Indian. In Europe, where the concept for the
>jack-o'-lantern was conceived, it is not a pumpkin but rather a carved-out
>turnip. The switch was made in America because, besides being much larger
>A blacksmith by the name of
>Jack made a contract with Satan. The deal contained a trade-off. Jack the
>into heaven, Jack went to hell. At the gates of hell, Satan refused Jack
>entrance, saying that Jack was full of too many tricks and would cause
>mischief. Satan then ordered the gates of hell closed. But before Jack was
>thrown out, he managed to scoop out a burning coal from the fires of hell with
>a turnip he had been eating. As this coal came from hell, it was eternal and
>would never be extinguished. Thus, Jack, who was denied entrance into heaven
>and hell, was doomed to roam the earth with his peculiar lantern, his
>Jack-o'-lantern, if you will.
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Note 1045.43 How to NOT celebrate Halloween 43 of 54
BSS::R_LECOMPTE "Jesus Christ is Lord of ALL!" 6 lines 31-OCT-1991 16:13
-< why not both? >-
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Why can't both be true? Maybe some folks did one and some the other.
I know there is an increase of satanic killings right now. Here is
Colorado for a fact. I wouldn't want to be in Manitou tonight!
Rothel
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Note 1045.45 How to NOT celebrate Halloween 45 of 54
BSS::R_LECOMPTE "Jesus Christ is Lord of ALL!" 14 lines 31-OCT-1991 16:47
-< hmmm >-
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I don't know. Have often wondered that myself. Maybe because of the
beauty. Maybe because of the Indians that once lived here and some
of the "sacred" Indian land. I know John Denver started a trend with
Aspen, which was just an old mining town. Now he has a large new age
institute there.
I always found it kind strange as I love the mountains and the outdoors
and always feel God's presence even closer when I am in His world, not
mans.
It would be interesting to know why. But it sure seems to be increasing
more and more in this state.
Rothel
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Note 1045.46 How to NOT celebrate Halloween 46 of 54
BSS::R_LECOMPTE "Jesus Christ is Lord of ALL!" 3 lines 31-OCT-1991 16:47
-< yes! >-
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p.s. Yes, it is that big of thing!
Rothel
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Note 1045.47 How to NOT celebrate Halloween 47 of 54
DBSRFX::WAHL "Have you hugged your moderator today?" 26 lines 31-OCT-1991 19:11
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re: which to believe
Therein lies the problem with a lot of religious folklore, both pro-
and anti- Christian. A lot of us have trouble understanding just how
incredibly superstitious most Americans were just a few generations
ago. To pick up an era from another note, a lot of the people who
heard Jonathan Edwards and George Whitefield preach took omens in the
woods, in the clouds, and in livestock very seriously, and were
continuously concerned about hexes of all sorts. Some of you who live
out here in God's country have heard various sorts of spooky cowboy and
miner stories. We think they're quaint, but at night around a campfire
in the middle of nowhere in 1870 they were often taken as warnings of
nasty things to avoid. It's understandable that a lot of this stuff
got all mixed up with legitimate Christian doctrine until the things
that are Biblical or historical got lost in the elaboration.
Does that mean Halloween is just a big joke? No. There is stuff
out there based on meticulous scholarship from people whose adherence
to good research practices I trust which says that Halloween is a pagan
holiday which no Christian should have any part of. Mike Waranke has
done some work in this area (he's actually Dr. Mike, believe it or
not). So has the guy who was a visiting teacher at V7 Presb. here in
Colorado Springs. There are others; look at back issues of
Christianity Today and Christian History.
Dave W.
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Note 1045.48 How to NOT celebrate Halloween 48 of 54
WPOCS1::KAPTEYN "Yahwehnissi" 18 lines 31-OCT-1991 23:08
-< Wich witch >-
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Garth,
I read several books from the library about This and they all
very much give a simular picture as the reply inserted by Ed.
The part of the lantern could be right in both cases as far as I understood
it ,it was a smiling face they used to draw on the gates and may be the
two got interwoven.
Last night (Halloween) our pastor was interviewed on the local TV news
about an article he wrote in a local paper about Halloween. He got a very good
reception, nothing like, Oh there is one of them again. After this interview a
local police commisioner was asked for his opinion. He stated that there was
a tremendous upsurge in occult related crimes with evidence of a very wide-
spread and growing occult movement in Western Australia. His concern was
that things like halloween could form a stepping stone for youngsters to
further involvement with the occult.
I also observed last night that my opposite neigbours kids where actively
involved with halloween. Apparently the local SDA movement is not as opposed
as the local Baptist community
Jan.
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Note 1045.49 How to NOT celebrate Halloween 49 of 54
CSCOA1::ARNETT_G "Seeking a country to rule" 7 lines 4-NOV-1991 08:43
-< Where did this come from? >-
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re: .37
May I ask your source of information? I have done a LOT of research on
Celtic mythology and practices and this particular practice/variation
has not once surfaced before.
George
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Note 1045.50 How to NOT celebrate Halloween 50 of 54
HAVASU::HEISER "unborn women have rights too" 3 lines 4-NOV-1991 17:43
-< I have the original >-
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Source publication: "Gospel Truth" Vol. 25, No. 11, October 1984.
Reprints may be obtained from The Southwest Radio Church, P.O. Box 1144,
Oklahoma City, OK 73101.
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Note 1045.51 How to NOT celebrate Halloween 51 of 54
NAC::WIEBE "Garth Wiebe" 13 lines 5-NOV-1991 08:39
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Re: .50
> Source publication: "Gospel Truth" Vol. 25, No. 11, October 1984.
> Reprints may be obtained from The Southwest Radio Church, P.O. Box 1144,
> Oklahoma City, OK 73101.
Still sounds like secondary source information. Where did "Gospel Truth"
get their information? Do they have references to the original source
documents and research information?
Can you provide us with more detail on this?
Thanks.
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Note 1045.52 How to NOT celebrate Halloween 52 of 54
WPOCS1::KAPTEYN "Yahwehnissi" 5 lines 5-NOV-1991 09:44
-< sources are not inspired writings >-
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unfortunately there are many sources that relate the old
tales and customs and they not always are in agreement
but then they are not Holy Spirit controlled Scriptures :-)
So which one do you trust.
Jan.
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Note 1045.54 How to NOT celebrate Halloween 54 of 54
HAVASU::HEISER "best wishes Magic" 14 lines 7-NOV-1991 17:13
-< not so clandestine now >-
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Interesting report on the local TV news last night. It seems that the
discovery of cow remains have become increasingly common around the
Tucson and Sierra Vista areas following Halloween. Many bonfires can
also be seen in the surrounding mountains.
This year, a Tucson DPS officer stumbled upon a ceremony while on
patrol in the desert. This is one of the few known times that a law
enforcement officer has witnessed a ceremony. He described all the
participants as in the 17-22 range, all wearing hooded garments, lots
of chanting, an altar supporting a cow's head and daggers, and the
participants were passing a chalice around with a dark liquid in it.
Law officers have been combing the ceremony site since.
Mike